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分享如何打造免费的WTL商业开发环境？
在这个帖子中：http://topic.csdn.net/u/20090709/11/f3f9a286-9ef4-4e83-8808-26fb52ad5cb5.html?seed=287718652
jiangsheng大牛指出：
那就是意味着：其实ATL 3.0也不是免费的！
那如果ATL是收费的，WTL的开源还有什么意义？那如何打造免费的WTL商业开发环境？
WTL的未来？难道只能接受收费的ATL，然后才能享用开源的WTL？
我现在想到的方案是：安全VS2008的90天试用版，则自然可以将其中的ATL库用于商业开发，而不必付费。即使90天过期了，但库还是可以用的，或者可以将库从VS2008中提取出来。
但我担心的是：90天后，既然VS2008的试用期过了，是否意味着其附带的ATL库也不能用于商业开发了？
注：如果确实不想使用盗版的MS的东西的话。期待您的出谋划策，谢谢！
jiangsheng大牛指出：
在Visual C++ 2005推出之前，应用户要求，微软在Platform SDK里面包含了ATL和MFC的预发布版使得他们可以编写64位的程序而不用等Visual C++ 2005推出。使用这个版本的ATL和MFC库的条件是用户同意在Visual C++ 2005推出之后使用正式版的ATL和MFC。
这个版本的ATL和MFC库在新版本的SDK中被移除了。新的项目应该使用正式版的ATL和MFC。那就是意味着：其实ATL 3.0也不是免费的！
那如果ATL是收费的，WTL的开源还有什么意义？那如何打造免费的WTL商业开发环境？
WTL的未来？难道只能接受收费的ATL，然后才能享用开源的WTL？
我现在想到的方案是：安全VS2008的90天试用版，则自然可以将其中的ATL库用于商业开发，而不必付费。即使90天过期了，但库还是可以用的，或者可以将库从VS2008中提取出来。
但我担心的是：90天后，既然VS2008的试用期过了，是否意味着其附带的ATL库也不能用于商业开发了？
注：如果确实不想使用盗版的MS的东西的话。期待您的出谋划策，谢谢！
...全文
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老邓 2009-07-13
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按照目前C/C++判断标准，这个帖子根本不应该成为精华。
这是[十豆三推荐]。
还是我自己来取消精华吧：至于为什么保持了这么多天的原因是既然已经推荐了，就期待更多的人来讨论。
这是[十豆三推荐]。
还是我自己来取消精华吧：至于为什么保持了这么多天的原因是既然已经推荐了，就期待更多的人来讨论。
老邓 2009-07-11
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[Quote=引用 37 楼 hikaliv 的回复:]
引用 36 楼 Loaden 的回复:
引用 35 楼 akirya 的回复:
说实话,一套VS不到2k RMB。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
嗯，可是，我只是自由软件开发者，搞共享软件开发，一套才卖几十RMB...
这好办，你多搞一些开发，搞几十个，就赚回来了
再说，大学资源里面有正版VS，清华、北邮都有，直接下来一个就行了。
[/Quote]
谢谢，这些正版资源只提供给学生、教师研究使用，是不能用于商业开发的。
如果我要这些，不如直接在网上下载盗版VS，其实和正版没什么区别。
引用 36 楼 Loaden 的回复:
引用 35 楼 akirya 的回复:
说实话,一套VS不到2k RMB。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
嗯，可是，我只是自由软件开发者，搞共享软件开发，一套才卖几十RMB...
这好办，你多搞一些开发，搞几十个，就赚回来了
再说，大学资源里面有正版VS，清华、北邮都有，直接下来一个就行了。
[/Quote]
谢谢，这些正版资源只提供给学生、教师研究使用，是不能用于商业开发的。
如果我要这些，不如直接在网上下载盗版VS，其实和正版没什么区别。
光宇广贞 2009-07-11
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[Quote=引用 36 楼 Loaden 的回复:]
引用 35 楼 akirya 的回复:
说实话,一套VS不到2k RMB。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
嗯，可是，我只是自由软件开发者，搞共享软件开发，一套才卖几十RMB...
[/Quote]
这好办，你多搞一些开发，搞几十个，就赚回来了
再说，大学资源里面有正版VS，清华、北邮都有，直接下来一个就行了。
引用 35 楼 akirya 的回复:
说实话,一套VS不到2k RMB。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
嗯，可是，我只是自由软件开发者，搞共享软件开发，一套才卖几十RMB...
[/Quote]
这好办，你多搞一些开发，搞几十个，就赚回来了
再说，大学资源里面有正版VS，清华、北邮都有，直接下来一个就行了。
老邓 2009-07-11
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[Quote=引用 35 楼 akirya 的回复:]
说实话,一套VS不到2k RMB。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
[/Quote]
嗯，可是，我只是自由软件开发者，搞共享软件开发，一套才卖几十RMB...
说实话,一套VS不到2k RMB。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
[/Quote]
嗯，可是，我只是自由软件开发者，搞共享软件开发，一套才卖几十RMB...
珍惜生命远离CPP 2009-07-11
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说实话,一套VS不到2k RMB。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
如果你的软件买的钱>2k，那么买一套VS授权也不算啥。
学习的话用D版微软还是很乐意的。
ZOthello 2009-07-11
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什么是WTL？
vcchen_bo_qiang 2009-07-11
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支持！！
老邓 2009-07-11
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关于ATL 3.0是否免费，我大概看了下atl3.0目录下的授权协议，但英文不好，看得不是很明白。但我留意了：没发现要求以后必须要使用VS2005中的正式atl版本啊？
英文好的朋友帮忙看看ATL3.0的授权协议，看能否免费用于商业开发？谢谢！！
aEND-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
ACTIVEX(tm) TEMPLATE LIBRARY
IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This Microsoft End-User License Agreement ("EULA")
is a legal agreement between you (either an individual or a single entity) and
Microsoft Corporation for the Microsoft software product identified above,
which includes computer software and associated media and printed materials,
and may include "online" or electronic documentation ("SOFTWARE PRODUCT" or
"SOFTWARE"). By installing, copying, or otherwise using the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA.
SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws and international
copyright treaties, as well as other intellectual property laws and treaties.
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed, not sold.
1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
a. You may use an unlimited number of copies of the Microsoft Software
Product identified above on an unlimited number of computers for your
personal use. The SOFTWARE is in "use" on a computer when it is loaded into
temporary memory (i.e., RAM) or installed into permanent memory (e.g., hard
disk, CD-ROM, or other storage device) of that computer. However,
installation on a network server for the sole purpose of internal
distribution to one or more other computer(s) shall not constitute "use" for
which a separate license is required, provided you have a separate license
for each computer to which the SOFTWARE is distributed.
b. Solely with respect to electronic documents included with the SOFTWARE,
you may make an unlimited number of copies (either in hardcopy or electronic
form), provided that such copies shall be used only for internal purposes and
are not republished or distributed to any third party.
2. OWNERSHIP. Except as expressly licensed to you in this Agreement,
Microsoft retains all right, title and interest in and to the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT; provided, however, that, subject to the license grant in Section 1.a
and Microsoft's ownership of the underlying SOFTWARE PRODUCT, you shall own
all right, title and interest in and to any Derivative Technology of the
Product created by or for you.
3. COPYRIGHT. All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
(including but not limited to any images, photographs, animations, video,
audio, music, text, and "applets" incorporated into the SOFTWARE PRODUCT), the
accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT are
owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by
copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat
the SOFTWARE PRODUCT like any other copyrighted material exce t that you may
either (a) make one copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT solely for backup or archival
purposes or (b) install the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on a single computer provided you
keep the original solely for backup or archival purposes. You may not copy the
printed materials accompanying the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
4. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS.
a. Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You
may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE, except and
only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law
notwithstanding this limitation.
b. Rental. You may not rent or lease the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
c. Software Transfer. You may permanently transfer all of your rights under
this EULA, provided that you retain no copies, you transfer all of the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT (including all component parts, the media and printed
materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the Certificate of
Authenticity), and the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA.
d. Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may
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this EULA. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
5. REDISTRIBUTABLE COMPONENTS.
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grants you the right to use and modify the source code version of those
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sole purposes of designing, developing, and testing your software product(s),
and to reproduce and distribute the SAMPLE CODE, along with any modifications
thereof, only in object code form , provided that you comply with Section 5.c.
b. Redistributable Code. In addition to the rights granted in Section 1,
Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive royalty-free right to reproduce and
distribute the object code version of any portion of the SOFTWARE, along with
any modifications thereof, EXCEPT those files listed in the SOFTWARE file
NOREDIST.TXT ("REDISTRIBUTABLE SOFTWARE"), provided you comply with Section
5.c.
c. Redistribution Requirements. If you redistribute the SAMPLE CODE or
REDISTRIBUTABLE SOFTWARE (collectively, "REDISTRIBUTABLES") you agree to: (i)
distribute the REDISTRIBUTABLES in object code only in conjunction with and as
a part of a software application product developed by you which adds
significant and primary functionality to the SOFTWARE; (ii) not use
Microsoft's name, logo, or trademarks to market your software application
product; (iii) include a valid copyright notice on your software product ;
(iv) indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any
claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from the
use or distribution of your software application product; (v) not permit
further distribution of the REDISTRIBUTABLES by your end user. Contact
Microsoft for the applicable royalties due and other licensing terms for all
other uses and/or distribution of the REDISTRIBUTABLES.
6. U.S. GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED RIGHTS. THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT AND DOCUMENTATION
ARE PROVIDED WITH RESTRICTED RIGHTS. USE, DUPLICATION, OR DISCLOSURE BY THE
GOVERNMENT IS SUBJECT TO RESTRICTIONS AS SET FORTH IN SUBPARAGRAPH (C)(1)(II)
OF THE RIGHTS IN TECHNICAL DATA AND COMPUTER SOFTWARE CLAUSE AT DFARS
252.227-7013 OR SUBPARAGRAPHS (C)(1) AND (2) OF THE COMMERCIAL COMPUTER
SOFTWARE-RESTRICTED RIGHTS AT 48 CFR 52.227-19, AS APPLICABLE. MANUFACTURER IS
MICROSOFT CORPORATION/ONE MICROSOFT WAY/REDMOND, WA 98052-6 99.
英文好的朋友帮忙看看ATL3.0的授权协议，看能否免费用于商业开发？谢谢！！
aEND-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
ACTIVEX(tm) TEMPLATE LIBRARY
IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This Microsoft End-User License Agreement ("EULA")
is a legal agreement between you (either an individual or a single entity) and
Microsoft Corporation for the Microsoft software product identified above,
which includes computer software and associated media and printed materials,
and may include "online" or electronic documentation ("SOFTWARE PRODUCT" or
"SOFTWARE"). By installing, copying, or otherwise using the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA.
SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws and international
copyright treaties, as well as other intellectual property laws and treaties.
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed, not sold.
1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
a. You may use an unlimited number of copies of the Microsoft Software
Product identified above on an unlimited number of computers for your
personal use. The SOFTWARE is in "use" on a computer when it is loaded into
temporary memory (i.e., RAM) or installed into permanent memory (e.g., hard
disk, CD-ROM, or other storage device) of that computer. However,
installation on a network server for the sole purpose of internal
distribution to one or more other computer(s) shall not constitute "use" for
which a separate license is required, provided you have a separate license
for each computer to which the SOFTWARE is distributed.
b. Solely with respect to electronic documents included with the SOFTWARE,
you may make an unlimited number of copies (either in hardcopy or electronic
form), provided that such copies shall be used only for internal purposes and
are not republished or distributed to any third party.
2. OWNERSHIP. Except as expressly licensed to you in this Agreement,
Microsoft retains all right, title and interest in and to the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT; provided, however, that, subject to the license grant in Section 1.a
and Microsoft's ownership of the underlying SOFTWARE PRODUCT, you shall own
all right, title and interest in and to any Derivative Technology of the
Product created by or for you.
3. COPYRIGHT. All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
(including but not limited to any images, photographs, animations, video,
audio, music, text, and "applets" incorporated into the SOFTWARE PRODUCT), the
accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT are
owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by
copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat
the SOFTWARE PRODUCT like any other copyrighted material exce t that you may
either (a) make one copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT solely for backup or archival
purposes or (b) install the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on a single computer provided you
keep the original solely for backup or archival purposes. You may not copy the
printed materials accompanying the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
4. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS.
a. Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You
may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE, except and
only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law
notwithstanding this limitation.
b. Rental. You may not rent or lease the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
c. Software Transfer. You may permanently transfer all of your rights under
this EULA, provided that you retain no copies, you transfer all of the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT (including all component parts, the media and printed
materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the Certificate of
Authenticity), and the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA.
d. Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may
terminate this EULA if you fail to comply with the terms and conditions of
this EULA. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
5. REDISTRIBUTABLE COMPONENTS.
a. Sample Code. In addition to the rights granted in Section 1, Microsoft
grants you the right to use and modify the source code version of those
portions of the SOFTWARE designated as "Sample Code" ("SAMPLE CODE") for the
sole purposes of designing, developing, and testing your software product(s),
and to reproduce and distribute the SAMPLE CODE, along with any modifications
thereof, only in object code form , provided that you comply with Section 5.c.
b. Redistributable Code. In addition to the rights granted in Section 1,
Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive royalty-free right to reproduce and
distribute the object code version of any portion of the SOFTWARE, along with
any modifications thereof, EXCEPT those files listed in the SOFTWARE file
NOREDIST.TXT ("REDISTRIBUTABLE SOFTWARE"), provided you comply with Section
5.c.
c. Redistribution Requirements. If you redistribute the SAMPLE CODE or
REDISTRIBUTABLE SOFTWARE (collectively, "REDISTRIBUTABLES") you agree to: (i)
distribute the REDISTRIBUTABLES in object code only in conjunction with and as
a part of a software application product developed by you which adds
significant and primary functionality to the SOFTWARE; (ii) not use
Microsoft's name, logo, or trademarks to market your software application
product; (iii) include a valid copyright notice on your software product ;
(iv) indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any
claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from the
use or distribution of your software application product; (v) not permit
further distribution of the REDISTRIBUTABLES by your end user. Contact
Microsoft for the applicable royalties due and other licensing terms for all
other uses and/or distribution of the REDISTRIBUTABLES.
6. U.S. GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED RIGHTS. THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT AND DOCUMENTATION
ARE PROVIDED WITH RESTRICTED RIGHTS. USE, DUPLICATION, OR DISCLOSURE BY THE
GOVERNMENT IS SUBJECT TO RESTRICTIONS AS SET FORTH IN SUBPARAGRAPH (C)(1)(II)
OF THE RIGHTS IN TECHNICAL DATA AND COMPUTER SOFTWARE CLAUSE AT DFARS
252.227-7013 OR SUBPARAGRAPHS (C)(1) AND (2) OF THE COMMERCIAL COMPUTER
SOFTWARE-RESTRICTED RIGHTS AT 48 CFR 52.227-19, AS APPLICABLE. MANUFACTURER IS
MICROSOFT CORPORATION/ONE MICROSOFT WAY/REDMOND, WA 98052-6 99.
老邓 2009-07-11
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期待专家、大牛指点：求证ATL3.0能否用于商业开发，能否修改源码？
问题地址：http://topic.csdn.net/u/20090711/17/b1dd4310-23f5-4e02-8af0-c87593814407.html?23349
由于和本帖息息相关，所以链接一下，两个帖子同时结帖。
问题地址：http://topic.csdn.net/u/20090711/17/b1dd4310-23f5-4e02-8af0-c87593814407.html?23349
由于和本帖息息相关，所以链接一下，两个帖子同时结帖。
fw176170847 2009-07-11
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xuexixuexi
chenyu2202863 2009-07-10
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我很关注~应为我也希望WTL能有长足的发展！
老邓 2009-07-10
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[Quote=引用 12 楼 IDisposable 的回复:]
引用 10 楼 Loaden 的回复:
引用 1 楼 Wolf0403 的回复:
Windows is not free, but we still have free software build upon it.
谢老大回复！
Windows可以在VirtualBox下开试用版。
现在的问题是：能否在虚拟机的Windows下安装试用版的VS2008，再使用里面的ATL进行商业开发呢？
这样也是侵权的。
[/Quote]
哦，那使用ATL 3.0侵权吗？麻烦看看里面的协议：英文不好，法律不行，看不明白。
引用 10 楼 Loaden 的回复:
引用 1 楼 Wolf0403 的回复:
Windows is not free, but we still have free software build upon it.
谢老大回复！
Windows可以在VirtualBox下开试用版。
现在的问题是：能否在虚拟机的Windows下安装试用版的VS2008，再使用里面的ATL进行商业开发呢？
这样也是侵权的。
[/Quote]
哦，那使用ATL 3.0侵权吗？麻烦看看里面的协议：英文不好，法律不行，看不明白。
老邓 2009-07-10
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[Quote=引用 13 楼 redleaves 的回复:]
WTL对于ATL的需求好像只有消息处理的那点东西吧...自己写个得了.
[/Quote]
尝试过，不过似乎没那么简单：等自己水平提高了会再尝试的。
WTL对于ATL的需求好像只有消息处理的那点东西吧...自己写个得了.
[/Quote]
尝试过，不过似乎没那么简单：等自己水平提高了会再尝试的。
ppc_2008 2009-07-10
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不太容易啊,
Walf_ghoul 2009-07-10
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不懂，进来看看。。
redleaves 2009-07-10
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WTL对于ATL的需求好像只有消息处理的那点东西吧...自己写个得了.
Bruce Jia（上海） 2009-07-10
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[Quote=引用 10 楼 Loaden 的回复:]
引用 1 楼 Wolf0403 的回复:
Windows is not free, but we still have free software build upon it.
谢老大回复！
Windows可以在VirtualBox下开试用版。
现在的问题是：能否在虚拟机的Windows下安装试用版的VS2008，再使用里面的ATL进行商业开发呢？
[/Quote]
这样也是侵权的。
引用 1 楼 Wolf0403 的回复:
Windows is not free, but we still have free software build upon it.
谢老大回复！
Windows可以在VirtualBox下开试用版。
现在的问题是：能否在虚拟机的Windows下安装试用版的VS2008，再使用里面的ATL进行商业开发呢？
[/Quote]
这样也是侵权的。
Bruce Jia（上海） 2009-07-10
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有一棵树很漂亮，所以你想吊死在上面。 楼主退后一步吧，你眼前的是一片树叶，不是一座山
bdzwj 2009-07-10
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[Quote=引用 28 楼 weiym 的回复:]
支持，我们公司Windows平台的产品都是基于ATL+WTL的
[/Quote]
差不多吧， MFC是有些笨拙。 除非是必须维护前期MFC代码的必要，一般情况下是采用ATL+WTL的组合，开发周期不比MFC长，而且代码编写以及控制更为灵活，生成的程序轻量、高效， 这是MFC程序不可比拟的。
唯一不足之处就是WTL普及不如MFC, 如果新人加入开发组，如果不熟悉SDK /ATL /消息机制的话，短期根本不能上手。
支持，我们公司Windows平台的产品都是基于ATL+WTL的
[/Quote]
差不多吧， MFC是有些笨拙。 除非是必须维护前期MFC代码的必要，一般情况下是采用ATL+WTL的组合，开发周期不比MFC长，而且代码编写以及控制更为灵活，生成的程序轻量、高效， 这是MFC程序不可比拟的。
唯一不足之处就是WTL普及不如MFC, 如果新人加入开发组，如果不熟悉SDK /ATL /消息机制的话，短期根本不能上手。
老邓 2009-07-10
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[Quote=引用 1 楼 Wolf0403 的回复:]
Windows is not free, but we still have free software build upon it.
[/Quote]
谢老大回复！
Windows可以在VirtualBox下开试用版。
现在的问题是：能否在虚拟机的Windows下安装试用版的VS2008，再使用里面的ATL进行商业开发呢？
Windows is not free, but we still have free software build upon it.
[/Quote]
谢老大回复！
Windows可以在VirtualBox下开试用版。
现在的问题是：能否在虚拟机的Windows下安装试用版的VS2008，再使用里面的ATL进行商业开发呢？
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